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Nancy @ Nancy Liu Chin Designs, San Francisco Vendor: Florist Website: Nancy Liu Chin Designs About Me: A San Francisco native, Nancy graduated from the University of California - Berkeley's Haas Business School where she studied finance and marketing. Beyond running her floral studio, Nancy is a huge fan of Top Chef, loves to travel to exotic locations, is an avid reader of contemporary fiction and considers herself on Team Edward (Twilight fan!), entertains friends in her loft style home in San Francisco's SOMA neighborhood, and can be found at SF Giant's home games. Nancy and her husband, Kevin are a dynamic pair and can be frequently seen walking their white Bichon Frisee, Chin Chin around the city and lounging at cafes sipping Italian sodas.
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Dear Nancy

…Not to be snarky, but can you please explain why my florist charged $250 for a bouquet of peonies when I found an eight stem bunch at Whole Foods that very same week for $12.99?

Lisa

_____________________________________

Dear Lisa,

This question can be answered in so many ways.

Perceived Value

Let's assume that this is about “perceived value” which is defined as a consumer's opinion of what a product (or service's) value is. Often, this unique perception has little or nothing to do with the actual product (or service) price, and is dependent on the product (or service's) ability to satisfy the needs, expectation and requirement.

After consulting with floral designers, Audrey O'Brien of Studio Stems and Amy Marella of Hidden Garden Flowers for their input to this question, I realized that no matter what we collectively came up with to explain why the florist charged what she charged, ultimately Lisa didn't see the value of a $250 bouquet of peonies.

Sometimes it's hard to see value especially when many of it is “hidden” or behind the scenes.  It's difficult to see:

- the florist has other expenses like overhead, production, office expenses, and nonoperating expenses that might factor in.

- the time that the florist probably spent finding just the right flowers, processing each stem, picking flowers up in the wee hours of the morning (except yours truly here!), and nursing them so that they would open just right.

- the experience, years of practice, and knowledge that the florist and his/her staff have acquired.

- the art and creativity that goes beyond just the flowers themselves. That there is an art in selecting the right flower and designing them. There is creativity in even the simplest of arrangement. There is a talent in being able to combine different ingredients. There is creativity in designing a wedding from start to finish with taste, polish, and style.

- the stress and pressure that many florists and vendors must go through given the importance of the day. You can't redo!

Bottom line: It's up to us, floral designers, to find the clients who will understand and appreciate the art that we are creating. It's up to us to educate the clients so that they can see the value and difference.

The Price Strategy - Is it due for a change?

This is something that I touched upon last week (very briefly). In our small wedding world, the traditional method of pricing, which I am completely guilty of using, is the cost-based pricing.

The cost-based method of determining price is such that a fixed sum or a percentage of the total cost is added to the cost of the product to arrive at its selling price.

Cost of Stem of Peonies x # of stems need + (Fixed Sum or %) = Selling Price

Example: For simplicity’s sake, if the recipe called for 15 stems of pink peonies and we assumed that one stem is around $5.00***, then the direct cost is $75.00 not including any other factors like overhead, production, supplies, utilities, and on and on.

If the cost is $75.00 and the florist decided that a 330% markup is needed to then cover overhead, production and labor costs, utilities, etc., then the bouquet would be $250. This is probably and possibly how the florist determined the price of this bouquet.

However, I get it when consumers question pricing, especially if they can find a similar product in a grocery store like Whole Foods Market. If I were not in the floral business, I, too, would be concerned and question the price of an all peony bouquet at $250 given that 2 bunches at Whole Foods totals less than $30.00. The difference between the final retail and the cost is $220+. On top of that, if I can find peonies at the grocery store, I would feel that the flowers were not very special and unique thus further diminishing the value. How then should we price if consumers are so savvy and can find out our costs? How do we make our designs worthy when they don't seem so hard to find?

Here is one idea from the dynamic, thoughtful, smart, honest, ballsy, Sean Low of The Business of Being Creative. His practical advice for those in our creative field is unparalleled and I'm starting to believe that the way we price might have to change in order for us to be valued.

Below is a wonderful excerpt from his recently article entitled, Thoughts on Pricing.

It all leads back to my fundamental presumption: the value of any creative business is in the creation of the art, not its production. This is not to say that production is not valuable or should not be valued, just that clients will not pay for it as Nancy so eloquently lays out. My answer: be transparent and sell your art. That is why your clients are hiring you and what they will pay for. “

So…

Bottom line: floral designers, this is a wake up call. Our clients can find out what our products/materials costs. They don't even need to search the internet, they can go to a local grocery store and see how much our flowers retail for. Floral designers - we have got to move on. We cannot continue to price merely on our materials and production for that matter. If we do, we are going to continue to get brides who cannot separate the cost of the goods with the finished piece of art.

Thank you Lisa for opening thoughtful discussion. Stay tuned.

Enjoy! Nancy

***BTW:

The price of the peonies came from my direct wholesale resource, Torchio Nursery, whose average price for a 5 stem bunch of peonies is $25- this will vary from city to city, from season to season. So please do not take this as the final word on pricing.

Image above of Pink Peonies bouquet by Nancy Liu Chin Designs

Photo Credit: Richard Wood

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6 Responses to “Ask Nancy: $12.99 For Peonies Part One”

1.
The Professional Bridesmaid
Member
The Professional Bridesmaid (message)  46 posts, Newbee

Hi Nancy - Thanks for providing such a honest answer! Also interesting to hear your view on pricing in general.

 
2.
AmyM83
Member
AmyM83 (message)  247 posts, Helper bee

Wow, what an interesting post. I think the times are a’changing! A few years ago, people thought they HAD to pay an exorbitant amount of money on flowers, favors, a dress, a cake, etc. Now, it is cool to DIY. Was the term “recessionista” around a few years ago? Why pay thousands of dollars for flowers designed by an artist when I can search the internet, find photos of the bouquets I like, and do it myself for $500? For my own wedding, I went to a wholesale flower shop and did my own flowers (with peonies, roses, callas, and more) 6 bridesmaid’s bouquets, my bouquet, all 10 bouts, mom and grandma bouquets, 15 centerpieces, rose petals for the aisle, and other arrangements for the food table, guestbook table, seating card table, etc for $500. I bought the vases at Ikea for under $2. Yes, it was a lot of work prepping the flowers, but I am so glad I wasn’t a victim of the wedding money pit. I got my designer gown at Brides Against Breast Cancer for $600 (it still had the $3,300 price tag attached). I made my own invitations on my home printer with paper I ordered online in bulk and got calls and emails about how beautiful they were. Yes, I work full time and have two dogs and a house. I worked really hard putting all the details of my wedding together, but I am so glad our wedding did not put us in debt (but it looked like it did). There will always be people who have a lot of money to burn and want the top of the line wedding vendors who will do all the work for them. However, people’s priorities are changing. In the same way that my husband wants to work on our house with his own two hands, DIYing aspects of your wedding not only saves you money, it gives you a sense of pride and a chance to express your own creativity. I value that pride and creativity more than I value a dress from Kleinfeld’s or flowers by the best in the biz.

Sorry for the long post, but this hits home for me!

 
3.
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Member
flamingred (message)  711 posts, Busy bee

My bouquet is $250 and I’m happy to pay it, because I have no intention of putting together bouquets/centerpieces the morning (or night before) my wedding. I justify this by telling myself “your paying for labor” LOL. If I really wanted to do it myself, i would, but I don’t, so I’m okay with the cost of my flowers. I do admire girls who do this though, I’m just kind of lazy.

 
4.
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Guest
Jolene Rae Harrington

AmyM83, I applaud your resourcefulness (and energy, calm and determination.) HOWEVER, not everyone has either skill or the time to DIY it. And even if they did, is it really saving money when you factor in your time? Taking a clue from Nancy, a bride and groom need to ask themselves what their time is worth? For example, I could spend every weekend raking my own leaves (don’t have a blower), pulling weeds, deadheading the flowers and doing the other maintenance on my garden. It would take me about 6 hours and I’d have a sore back, blistered hands and be too tired to cook dinner for my husband. So we’d drop $40 on takeout instead. OR I could pay my gardener to come twice a month and do a better job in half the time. I’d spend my Saturdays recovering from my work week, and have a few friends over for dinner instead. When I think about it that way, paying the gardener seems like a bargain.
The same can apply to the bride. Those who stress easy and aren’t as crafty, sure as heck aren’t going to want to be going to the market at 3am to source their flowers, any more than they’d be whipping up a 3 tiered cake in their kitchen the day before. DIY is fine for a few chosen elements of your event, but balance your time and energy with the expenses and you may decide to leave a lot of the work to the pros.

 
5.
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Guest
Ask Nancy: $12.99 for Peonies Part Two | Weddingbee PRO

[...] couple days ago, I started to answer Lisa’s question on the cost of peonies, writing about Perceived Value and [...]

 
6.
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Guest
Christine

Once again a great explanation.

I have to echo the quote you posted from Sean. My concern with pricing in that way is the brides who will simply steal your designs. Sadly, I see this happening more and more. No they can not steal your talent and technique nor the skill with which a talented professional will execute that design. There has to be a way to protect yourself and still be transparent.

 


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Nancy @ Nancy Liu Chin Designs Nancy @ Nancy Liu Chin Designs, San Francisco Vendor: Florist Website: Nancy Liu Chin Designs About Me: A San Francisco native, Nancy graduated from the University of California - Berkeley's Haas Business School where she studied finance and marketing. Beyond running her floral studio, Nancy is a huge fan of Top Chef, loves to travel to exotic locations, is an avid reader of contemporary fiction and considers herself on Team Edward (Twilight fan!), entertains friends in her loft style home in San Francisco's SOMA neighborhood, and can be found at SF Giant's home games. Nancy and her husband, Kevin are a dynamic pair and can be frequently seen walking their white Bichon Frisee, Chin Chin around the city and lounging at cafes sipping Italian sodas.
 
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